CHRIS NEUMER: OK, fair enough. I was realizing that while I was doing some research on you, it seems like 75% of the interviews that I do are with people who live in New York or are based in New York. Realizing that you are a New Yorker through and through, I was curious to know what you think the difference is between New York and LA in film terms?
ROSARIO DAWSON: In film terms?
CHRIS NEUMER: Yeah. It just seems that more actors' actors are in New York and more of the creative types are in New York as opposed to the money people who are in LA. I was curious to know if you agreed with that.
ROSARIO DAWSON: I think there's just a difference in energy for one. There's an easier way of resource here. You can go to the museums and the restaurants and just walking around, it's a bustling place because it's ripe for creativity. LA is a lot more stressed out and isolated and it's what people who are the big guys want to have a house and raise their kids in sunshine.
CHRIS NEUMER: And be able to drive two hours to work.
ROSARIO DAWSON: Yeah, you drive two hours or whatever and sacrifice all that people time. When you are here [in New York] you are constantly being stimulated all the time. It's crazy. It's ripe for any kind of artist to get ideas. The access is different. As expensive as it is to live here, there's more access to other people in a way that's like, "I can meet you here and we can crash ideas and throw something together." My personal thing here is for passion, because there's the theater scene and there's the art scene. There's so much here. The lines are blurred a little bit less here.
CHRIS NEUMER: So the landscape really does affect the final product on that? The landscape, just the makeup of the city.
ROSARIO DAWSON: The trains, busses and you can walk around and meet each other. This is totally different from getting in a car and going through the traffic on the 101.
CHRIS NEUMER: This is definitely true. It also seems that you pick up on a lot of that energy in the films that are shot in and around New York. Even though a lot of people mistake Manhattan for all of New York, there is a lot of energy. There seems to be, I don't want to call it an aura because that seems a little far out, but there seems to be something palpable that shows up on screen when you are shooting in New York as opposed to LA which is just sunny and bland.
ROSARIO DAWSON: Well, New York has a personality and there is an energy here because there's a busyness here. You know that things are happening all over the place all at once and no moment is the same. There's a little bit more of a monotony to LA; it's always sunny etc. Here it just seems a lot more spontaneous. New York is a very spontaneous place. It's fun to do a New York movie that is trying to capture New York moments, couples and relationships and those types of things, you know it's transient. The people who do it right, try to be true to the moment and not try to make a New York movie. To make a New York movie is almost impossible because there is a million movies happening all the time. To make the quintessential New York movie is impossible. There's so many different stories going on. You kind of get tired of it because there's so much to do.
CHRIS NEUMER: I can see that. I get exhausted visiting New York. I can't even imagine living there.
ROSARIO DAWSON: I don't know if it's exhausting, but it's definitely stimulating.
CHRIS NEUMER: You don't have any formal acting training do you?
ROSARIO DAWSON: Not as a kid.
CHRIS NEUMER: OK, but prior to Kids, it was just … You were just basically picked up on the street by Larry [Clark] and moved on from there.
ROSARIO DAWSON: Yeah.
CHRIS NEUMER: Do you find that your entrance into the film world with no training has affected your career in choices in any way?
ROSARIO DAWSON: What I do is very organic stuff here. I have to be with people who really want to do it like kids who really want to make a project, that's thrown together and they went after it with love and are trying to make it and make it exciting and are putting a lot of energy into it. It's not like some regular Hollywood movie that's a big ego trip and you're just getting paid to look good and then you get paid again. A lot of stuff I've done for experience and that I try things out just to see, you know branch out and see what else I'm interested in doing or not. That kind of kept me back in my independent roots because I just feel more comfortable in that setting with those people.
CHRIS NEUMER: I was curious about your choice of roles because I know you've done Men in Black 2 and Adventures of Pluto Nash. You've also done a lot of little stuff like Chelsea Walls. Do you find yourself drawn more to one side or the other of the production spectrum?
ROSARIO DAWSON: No, I really like the whole production of making a movie. I'm always interested in what's going on throughout the entire thing, the actual having it happen. It's hard to make a movie whether you are making a big budget or an independent. It's hard to make it. You have to be focused. You have to have a team together. I'm interested in that group mentality and trying to have all the creative juices flowing in the same direction. I just think that whole process is really interesting. As an actor playing that role within the industry, I get to try on a different personality and appreciate that we choose who we are all the time. Just like I can choose to play a character that I like all the time.
CHRIS NEUMER: You can choose the what?
ROSARIO DAWSON: Choose the character. I can choose play the character and choose to adopt the persona. So we all do that in our own lives, but I get to do that much more in a 100% sort of way. I do that in a very conscious way and it's really fun. It gives me an opportunity to step in someone else's shoes. I get to know people better.
CHRIS NEUMER: By the people you say you know better, these are the characters you are talking about again?
ROSARIO DAWSON: It's my character, yes, but it's the fact that we all choose. I understand that in my life … can you change your life in one day? Absolutely, because you choose your life. It's not like you wake up every day and say "I'm a writer and this is what I do." You are different with everybody you meet and you choose to be that way. You may wake up and say, "I'm not going to do this anymore. I'm going to do this." It might not be very lucrative, but you are choosing it. You choose your personality traits. You don't have to be shy or angry or moody or any of those different things. You might … but you can also choose to get off that because we're thoughtful creatures. I like that idea. Like I'm being myself and I talk to my mother and I have my whole life and my priorities that come with it and all of a sudden, I'm a different character. I realize that in those moments I'm acting out and making it as real as possible and it has all these other different priorities and all these other things. They become very real for me. It's really fun because I can see if I was born under different circumstances, I'd be a totally different person. I wouldn't think anything of it, but I like thinking of it. It's kind of nice to be like, "I like the kind of life that I have, that I have chosen for myself." I can stop doing it at any time.
CHRIS NEUMER: It's always nice to enjoy it rather than wish you had done something much, much different.
ROSARIO DAWSON: If I wanted something different, I could just do it.
CHRIS NEUMER: This is also true. Now in that vein, have you thought about getting on board as a producer or even as writing or directing your own material in the future?
ROSARIO DAWSON: Well I produced a short film already and I actually have a production team and we are in the process of flushing out a script. We have a couple of other considerations, but the one that we want to do first is still being written and we're working on that. We're planning on getting that done.
CHRIS NEUMER: Huh! There's even another hat for you. So really going back to the original question that I had for you; whether the production is big or it's small, you just enjoy the fact that you are part of the production.
ROSARIO DAWSON: Mmmmhhmm. [in the affirmative]
CHRIS NEUMER: I'm glad I could sum that up in such a short thing. Doing some other research for this interview, I noticed that all the interviews that I could find with you, it seemed that half the questions were about your acting or about the movies that you were currently promoting. The other half of the questions were always about who you were dating and whether or not his name was Chris Judd. I thought to myself, "This has got to be annoying for someone who is really only interested in the acting."
ROSARIO DAWSON: Yeah. No I mean it's something that I actually had a couple of generous friends and I had a couple of conversations about whether or not I really wanted to do interviews anymore. I wanted to try to work around that because that kind of conversation is a waste of my time. It's not to be rude, but it's like within a few minutes you are not going to get to know me and those are really personal questions that even my family doesn't necessarily know about or my friends and you are not included in that. That's not the whole purpose of having this conversation. It's about talking about how I was on this movie and I was working with these people. You want to have the inside story about it and I can give you that. Beyond that to try to get to know who I am underneath is impossible to do and you are going to get wrong. It's going to tick me off so why even do it. It's always done in a semi-friendly way but… There's a theory about just because you can demand an answer doesn't mean you get one.
CHRIS NEUMER: Uh huh.
ROSARIO DAWSON: I'm a big Stephen Hawking fan and I know that if you ask the wrong question sometime, he will kick you out of his place. Just because you can ask "Who made God?" doesn't make it a good question. But I also have to choose my battles. I like doing interviews and I like being able to express myself and …
CHRIS NEUMER: And talk about your craft.
ROSARIO DAWSON: The whole point of doing press is to reach the masses and tell them I am working on this and I think you should trust me on this. If you want it, I recommend you pay the $10 and watch this movie because I think you would enjoy it. That's what I'm trying to do. The rest of it doesn't really matter. I don't think people are going to see me in a movie because they think I'm dating Chris Judd. Then I'm not doing my job right. For me it's not pertinent information to be in a magazine.
CHRIS NEUMER: No, I grant you. Then you could play your diva role.
ROSARIO DAWSON: Then the role that I am playing and all the movies that I'm doing are all right, then it's about making me more popular as opposed to me doing what I want to do and hoping people follow me and my career.
CHRIS NEUMER: That's a very good point.
ROSARIO DAWSON: People who do that who are like their name and they are who it is. It doesn't really matter if their movie is doing well. They are still really famous and that is all they care about. Me, it's like I don't like doing press unless I have a movie coming out, but there are some people who like to be in the press all the time. They are the commodity rather than the product. I don't feel like I am a product when I am talking about myself and selling myself, I'm not going to have a company named … Hey, I'm Rosario Dawson. Work under me and be Rosario Dawson Inc. I don't really need to brand anybody with my name. It's really not my deal, but I definitely feel that I have good taste in some projects. I've worked with some really wonderful people and I've gotten enough experience and now I'm starting to be more specific about what I'm choosing. I think it's good entertainment and I like to entertain people. I want them to trust my judgment and that's what is most important to me.
CHRIS NEUMER: Hmm. It's just interesting given that there is this … it seems like in America today there is this whole focus on celebrity. Celebrity has taken on almost the escapism that the movies used to hold. It used to be that you went to see Indiana Jones to escape from your job for 2 hours, but now it seems like you try to get as much information as you can on a certain person, like all the personal stuff that you could never possibly know just from talking to a person for 10 minutes. Even that has taken on an escapism of its own. It seems like that could be a symptom of a greater hole and you certainly, as someone who has a large …
ROSARIO DAWSON: All the new reality shows, it's a new trend. Everybody wants to know what everybody else is doing. Could you even hear me? The traffic is really loud.
CHRIS NEUMER: Oh that's OK. I can hear you.
ROSARIO DAWSON: It's no longer about funny little TV shows where you could find parallels in your own life, but aren't really what's true. But instead it's actually watching the struggle and rooting for real people. That's what they are into right now.
CHRIS NEUMER: Ruben doesn't mind, but I'm sure some other people do. Prior to working on The 25th Hour, you had stated in a couple of places that you really wanted to work with Spike Lee again. What is it about Spike that makes him an appealing director for you to work for?
ROSARIO DAWSON: He's very challenging to work for.
CHRIS NEUMER: How so?
ROSARIO DAWSON: We don't always agree on everything so it's not always … He wants your opinion and he'll take it and he'll fight for it. If he doesn't like it, then it's his movie and if you don't like it, then get out. I like that. I like working with someone with a vision and is uncompromising about that vision. Very few people are like that who really care that much. I was so grateful for the experience. I knew that I got him right when we were sitting at the Berlin Film Festival. I was sitting next to him watching movies and he was going, "Look at that shot. Look at the extra in the background of that one." He so loves what he does and I love people who are passionate so it makes it all worth it for me. I know he gets this stuff out of me. Some of the best work I've done is working with him.
CHRIS NEUMER: Yeah. You were very, very good in this one. It seemed like he used, and I can't compare this to his other films because I just don't remember, but it seemed like there were a lot of shots in The 25th Hour that were like stolen shots; they were shot from across the street or there would be a long crane shot that would move into a close-up or things would be shot from behind or around corners, sort of not the traditional master shot close-up. Did you have to adjust your performance in any way to suit that or was it all good; the camera just happened to be there?
ROSARIO DAWSON: That's what I liked about it. The film was very introspective. Everybody was sort of in their own world.
CHRIS NEUMER: The film was very what?
ROSARIO DAWSON: Introspective. Everyone was kind of dealing with their own world. It was like coming to terms with some of the decisions they made and having to be responsible for themselves. A lot of that takes quiet time. You have to sit around, away from everyone. I thought that was good because a lot of what was going on that was so great in the movie was silent. The camera wasn't in your face. It gave people space to be engaged in the movie and involved in it. I think that's what people came out of it. They thought about their lives, things that they had been slacking off on and the choices that they make. Everyone felt sort of semi-responsible for the place he was in his life. Maybe if I would have said this to him, maybe if I hadn't tolerated this kind of behavior …
CHRIS NEUMER: Or if I hadn't needed money like his father needed money.
ROSARIO DAWSON: All those different things and the statements made about how we are so passive-aggressive in so many ways. A lot of times things happen around us that we are not happy about afterwards and we don't really see the choices that we had beforehand. Maybe my choice should have been to have more tough love in here. Maybe I should have said, "You are drinking too much" or "I don't think you are treating this person nicely." You kind of let it go. You think, "I don't want to start a fight" and people are very temperamental about certain things and when you tolerate the behavior that's bad. That's the same thing as condoning it. It's sort of an interesting way of looking at responsibilities for yourself and what you are doing for yourself to make yourself happy but also look at the other people around you. Are you really supporting the person? Are you really being a friend to this person? Are you really when it counts stepping up and being there for them in a way that might make you a little uncomfortable but it's better than sitting on the sidelines and not saying anything.
CHRIS NEUMER: That ultimately is being a better friend.
ROSARIO DAWSON: Yeah. These are all kind of interesting ideas that came up in that. I think the camera angles kind of allowed it because it's the opportunity of not being in everybody's face. It was very quiet and the actors were in their own tangent, in their own world.
CHRIS NEUMER: Spike's direction, he seemed more mellow. Some of his films have definitely been both metaphorically and literally 'in your face'. He is pushing forward an idea or attacking a system. In this one it seemed there wasn't as much of that. It was just a story about a guy and the things that he was working on in his life. In that respect it seemed like sort of a divergence from the idea of who Spike is.
ROSARIO DAWSON: Yeah. The thing is that it is not just any guy. It is sort of opening up the fact that everybody has a story, even the drug dealer. The lead was a drug dealer. "I don't want to watch something about a drug dealer. I don't want to feel something for this person." It's not being judgmental; just knowing that every single person has a story. And it is valid, regardless of whether or not you agree with it, regardless if it is good or bad, whatever it is you want to dismiss it from your memory. It's not dismissable because it is a human being and the person has a story. It's as simple as that.
CHRIS NEUMER: It seems a mark of the writing and there's no way I can produce the screen writer and novelist's last name … It seems like this was a very humanizing story. You think of drug dealers and you think of big, strong gangsters. You don't think of Ed Norton necessarily. You think of a drug dealer's family. You don't think of Brian Cox or you as his girlfriend. It was very interesting to put human elements on that. Was there anything that you did specifically for your character to add … I know you said you didn't want it to be a reprise of your role in He Got Game. Was there anything specific that you did to differentiate between the two?
ROSARIO DAWSON: On the block, he was a runner and she did a lot of certain little things so I started running. I wanted to get in shape because there was a scene that I did where the camera was strapped to me and I was running at top speed. It didn’t make it into the movie, but… Also, I thought it was an interesting idea. She’s smart and she’s beautiful and she’s lazy, you know? Running takes a lot of effort. She makes a very conscious choice to be with this guy, because it’s not like she’s doing something where she’s partying every night, and just wants to have fun. And that’s personal and isolating and relaxing. It was interesting doing things in her shoes and trying to imagine what kind of person she would be. It was fun ‘cause I thought it was extremely boring running and it’s really not my sport. It was really being in someone else’s headspace. If someone is really attracted to this they have to be within this kind of frame line or frame of mind. If they need this kind of relaxation then they must be stressed about something. It was interesting to really take into account, not to like argue away any other reasons why she might not have been more active, pro-active in the relationship. It’s not like she could be–all the excuses that Nala had in He Got Game, she was young, she was insecure, she was in love with her guy, she ended up getting an abortion because he asked her to and now she knows he’s going off to college and probably isn’t going to be there for her and she put a lot of time and energy into him and now she’s feeling like it turns into a lose. She has nothing to show for it. She sees his family pawing at him and no matter what because they’re family, he’s going to come through for them, but that’s not the same case for her, even though they’ve been through a lot together. She could very easily be tossed aside and left behind. She is just feeling like she needs to look out for herself, which is not the same thing that is going on with Naturelle because she’s not just being dumb and being with this guy because he’s putting food on her plate and all these different things. She does love him but she’s much more conscious about it. She’s putting herself in danger in a much more conscious way. She’s very clear about what’s going on and she’s choosing it anyway and I wanted to make clear that she knew where she was and that she wasn’t just some sideline victim. She got it and she was still there. That sells the ending. You see that they get each other and they really love each other. Regardless of whether they respect necessarily the other in that way, she’s not going, "Oh he’s a good drug dealer, I’m so proud of him." Or he’s going "I’m so proud of her, because she’s living off my money," but they got it. I wanted that to be clear. With Nala, there were a lot of games in that movie, but there wasn’t here. That’s why it started that they don’t communicate for that period of time because they are the people who know each other the best. And I really wanted that to get across, it wasn’t just a game.
CHRIS NEUMER: Did you and Spike or Ed ever talk that out ahead of time so that that would come through outside the dialogue?
ROSARIO DAWSON: We hung out a lot actually and a lot of that meant that he and I would have to spend quality time with each other, we did a lot of rehearsal before hand and then afterward I spent a lot of time with Edward because we want to convey that these people were in love with each other and have been for four years and you have to be comfortable physically around the other person and that’s not something–it’s not just over the line in acting, but literally getting accustomed to the other person’s movement and energy so that when we were shooting a scene and Spike would be like, "Could you be holding her in this shot," it’s not going to be awkward. It’s also not going to be practiced and it’s not going to be forced. We’re going to feel comfortable with each other.
CHRIS NEUMER: It will feel real.
ROSARIO DAWSON: And we grew to be very comfortable around each other and we wanted that to come across; this is four years of comfort and love and understanding. That has to come across so we spent time together so that that would happen.
CHRIS NEUMER: Which, I’m sure, in turn, spurned even more gossip rumors.
ROSARIO DAWSON: Not really, I don’t think there’s anything to worry about when Salma Hayek is your girlfriend. People kind of left that alone. (laughs) He’s got pretty much the hottest woman on the planet as his girlfriend, so I don’t think there’d be any idea that he’d be slumming. It became kind of common that people would be catty with each other, but I think everyone really liked their relationship. She was respectful about that, which was nice.
CHRIS NEUMER: And it’s also acting, do something fake for the sake of the camera. The only other thing I wanted to touch on slightly was Josie and the Pussycats, I wanted to ask one question about that because I loved the film. I enjoyed the hell out of it. It seemed like most of the other critics panned it as being, well, bad. I was curious to get your take on it. Is it bad? Or subversive and misunderstood?
ROSARIO DAWSON: I loved that movie. I think it’s great, I think it touched on some really cool subjects in Hollywood, because there is so much panhandling to kids and ridiculous and overzealous marketing
CHRIS NEUMER: What?! I refuse to believe that anything could be over marketed.
ROSARIO DAWSON: I mean, when you have a president in office who stole the election who cuts all the money on education, you have all these sponsors who come in and put up the money for schools, so these kids are being bombarded, even at school. On school buses. Soda companies are putting up the money for this and it’s like, That’s great, I’m glad they’re getting the money, but there getting all the backlash too. I’ve heard about that though, going to different concerts and there’s some marketer who comes out and gets the kids to chant different name brands before the performer comes on. It’s like The Laker Girls use this shampoo. I mean, who cares? It’s unbelievable how bombarded we are with all this stuff. All of that was in the movie and I thought it was really funny. I know a lot of people who liked it, who are much older and who adored it. I loved the songs and I loved making It.. I think that movie rocked. (laughs) I was sad about it because I wanted to do a sequel.
CHRIS NEUMER: All the things you said and more. I’m glad to hear you enjoyed making it as well.
ROSARIO DAWSON: I’m glad to hear you liked it.
