CHRIS NEUMER: Dare I ask what you’ve been doodling there?
BILLY BOB THORNTON: Oh, yeah. I doodle all the time during interviews and stuff. I can’t sit still and I’ll start pulling the tablecloth up, it’s almost like I have tourette’s.
CHRIS NEUMER: Well, that’s good news for me.
BILLY BOB THORNTON: I’ll turn the TV on or whatever. What if your name were Peter Guber?
CHRIS NEUMER: You could put millions of dollars worth of bowling alleys into Sony.
BILLY BOB THORNTON: This is a great magazine. It’s like, in the music business, there’ll be a magazine that a guy starts and it’ll be a little edgier and one vision kind of thing.
CHRIS NEUMER: Exactly. And that vision is mine. It beats working for a bank.
BILLY BOB THORNTON: Yeah, I’ll agree. I just draw these weird faces and stuff.
CHRIS NEUMER: Are these the people who have been interviewing you?
BILLY BOB THORNTON: Some of them are. This is one of the guys at the roundtable (laughs). That’s him.
CHRIS NEUMER: I’m both eager to see what I’d look like in your hand and scared at the same time.
BILLY BOB THORNTON: (laughs) I do these cartoons. I can’t really draw, but that makes them funnier. This says, "Last year, Bertram ran for student council… and he caught them".
CHRIS NEUMER: That’s kind of like, "I miss my husband, but my aim’s getting better."
BILLY BOB THORNTON: (laughs) Exactly.
CHRIS NEUMER: Well, I’m excited to speak to you, because I’m always excited to talk to actors who have range and can show it on screen. Thinking about this with the Astronaut Farmer, I know you’ve said a number of times that you’re renowned for playing the asshole, and this is the exact opposite of that. I thought to myself, I know hot actresses always want to play roles where they can put on weight or have a crack problem and wondered, if for you it was especially appealing to be able to play a fresh-faced, well-scrubbed guy.
BILLY BOB THORNTON: Not necessarily. I go by the script, you know? The story and I don’t keep looking for, "I have to do this kind of character or that kind of character". There are some things that are on my list, and this was.
CHRIS NEUMER: When you say this, do you mean this character?
BILLY BOB THORNTON: This movie, really. If you think about it, people assume that I’ve played bad guys and assholes, but really I haven’t. I did One False Move back in 1990 or and since then I haven’t played a bad guy. Except School for Scoundrels, the guy was an asshole. That guy was an asshole. The guy in One False Move was a killer. Other than that, I’ve only played good guys. They’re guys who start out retarded or as the dumb ass brother or racist whatever you think in Monster’s Ball. Every one of them, at the end of the movie, is the only one who knows what’s going on and they’re the conscience of the movie. A Simple Plan is a good example of this. So, this guy isn’t a whole hell of a lot different than the characters I’ve played already. They’re all sort of Americana characters.
CHRIS NEUMER: Which fits in nicely with your music too.
BILLY BOB THORNTON: Absolutely. With this guy, it’s not as hard to get inside the good part of him. He starts out that way. The other characters you discover that there’s more to them as you go along.
CHRIS NEUMER: One thing I found interesting about this character is that if you put him up against Willie from Bad Santa they are completely polar opposites to the average viewer, the housewife in Iowa.
BILLY BOB THORNTON: Yeah.
CHRIS NEUMER: But just as you discover that Willie is good-hearted, you come to find out that this character is $600,000 in debt has taken his kids out of school and I thought, this is the other side to being a dreamer.
BILLY BOB THORNTON: Trying to live out your dreams can be costly in a lot of ways.
CHRIS NEUMER: You probably have 19 stories you can tell me about these costs from the summer of 1988 alone, huh?
BILLY BOB THORNTON: (nods) Absolutely. I mean there are so many holes in the road along the way when you’re trying to live out your dreams. It’s hard. It’s taxing. You do get called crazy or whatever a lot. There are a lot of things that go along with it. But here’s the thing, do you want—I was just saying to this lady earlier, here’s the thing, there’s the family who doesn’t take risks and the father who didn’t live out his dreams and they’re the ones who move up to the carnival and that’s the family who’s walking around looking at the ground and the husband and wife aren’t talking to each other, the kid tries to say, "Hey, can I go over here and shoot the balloon?" and they’re like, "Hell no!" And then they swat the kid. That’s the guy who is bitter and has regrets and didn’t live out his dreams. These people are the happiest they can be. Maybe the future’s not real clear to them, but they’re happy. They love their dad the way he is. This is the one movie where the son is not some Goth kid who is on dope and hates his father. And there are plenty of fathers and sons out there who are like that. In most movies, they always have the Goth kid who hates his father.
CHRIS NEUMER: That way you can have the reconciliation at the end.
BILLY BOB THORNTON: Absolutely.
CHRIS NEUMER: When you approach a character like this—and feel free to use examples from any of your roles—who doesn’t necessarily engender the audience’s instant sympathy or respect, how do you go about crafting the character to bring about audience sympathy?
BILLY BOB THORNTON: I think that burden is really more on the filmmaker than on me. I just go and play the part, you know? And in terms of craft, I don’t really have one that I know of. If I were a cabinet-maker, I’d call it a craft but this is sort of different… I think good actors are actors who have a lot of life experience and kind of know how to fall into situations in life or they’ve seen the situations before or been in it. I don’t really have a process necessarily. I think some actors are instantly accessible to people on screen. Some people are likable on screen; some actors are not likable on screen. It’s like… some can do both things and still draw you in. I think I have something in me—I don’t know what it is—where I can play an offbeat guy or a crazy guy or whatever and be likable. I’ve got that thing that that is. There are actors who are better bad guys that I am because they’ve got this thing and you’re afraid of them. Then there are guys who are more likable than me, Tom Hanks or somebody like that. But I’ve got a little of both of it.
CHRIS NEUMER: And it’s interesting watching you try and put that concept into words. Sometimes you can and sometimes you can’t. Tom Jane talked at length about how if the director puts the camera in the right place how he doesn’t have to do anything. However, if the camera’s in the wrong place, then there’s no end to the amount of work he has to do balancing out energy, enthusiasm and all that. When you were talking about how you are likable, I was thinking about the contrast between ‘just having it’ and Tom’s precisely refined and articulate presentation of what he does to get an emotion across to an audience. And both are right.
BILLY BOB THORNTON: You can’t argue with that.
CHRIS NEUMER: An acquaintance of my who was one of the producers of Cagney & Lacey mentioned to me recently this standard Hollywood trick of gaining audience sympathy by having the lead ‘pat a dog’. The character comes into a room, you’re not sure whether to like him or not and he gives a dog a treat. Boom, instantly you like him more. He told me the only example where nothing like this happened was Bad Santa. He said, "This is why that movie should be studied." I mean, instead of petting a dog, you come on screen and puke in an alley and start drunkenly peeing on your own leg!
BILLY BOB THORNTON: That’s funny. [Willie] doesn’t give it up until it’s time. That’s one of the things you’ve got to do. In Slingblade, if I had gotten emotional even once as that character… If I’d cried in Slingblade, it’d kill the whole thing. I had to toe the line the whole movie and stay in that guy and never let you see a different kind of human being. He had that speed that he went at and movement and everything else. I had to be that guy. There’s some characters where that is really crucial. Bad Santa and Slingblade are two great examples of that.
CHRIS NEUMER: You’ve mentioned again—and in doing so, you contradicted a statement of mine earlier, that I’m not too worried about because I’m actually quoting you—but you said that Hollywood has seen you as the asshole and likes casting you as the asshole, but looking back at the stuff you’ve done, you’ve got this role, you’ve played the president in projects, you’ve had roles completely across the board—
BILLY BOB THORNTON: Really across the board.
CHRIS NEUMER: So I wanted to ask, how have you managed to get this wide variety of characters? Is it the scripts you chose? Or not needing to have an enormous payday in a studio project?
BILLY BOB THORNTON: All that stuff. Definitely it’s the projects I choose. One of the things about being an actor… you can be a great actor if you don’t know how to choose, but this can make you look like a not so good actor. If you know yourself it really helps. There are actors who think that they can play anything. And it’s fun to try and go out and play whoever it is. I was just telling someone the other day that when they ask me to play Charles DeGaulle, I’ll say, "Get somebody else. Get a Frenchmen." I’m not going to be as good at that as somebody else would. I choose the parts that I know I’m the best guy for the job. If I read a script and go, "Wow, I fit." I love the story, I love the character and I’m the best guy for it, those are the ones I choose. I don’t try to do things for vanity’s sake, to go play—let’s say Robert Duvall. Robert Duvall can do that. He’s a better actor than I am. He can play almost anything. He’s amazing as Stalin. I can’t play Stalin. I can’t. So I just don’t try.
CHRIS NEUMER: Most of the time you hear actors saying, "I really want to challenge myself by playing Stalin." I know Robert Altman used to say that he would tackle projects because he didn’t know how to do them. It’s funny because now you’re saying the exact opposite of all that. And both work as methodologies.
BILLY BOB THORNTON: I don’t want to challenge myself, that’s selfish. That’s selfish to challenge myself and give people a shitty performance because I know I would. I challenge myself within the world of what I’m good at.
CHRIS NEUMER: That almost sounds like common sense.
BILLY BOB THORNTON: Go figure, huh?
CHRIS NEUMER: Sticking to the broad topic here at hand, the other thing that forever surprises me is at how many places your performance can be screwed up before and after you give it and when it hits the screen. As your career has progressed, have you started to pick up on certain red flags surrounding projects (or green flags, I suppose on the other end of the scale) that have helped you avoid bad projects? No more movies with Ben Affleck… after Armageddon, I guess.
BILLY BOB THORNTON: Absolutely. There are certain people you know you shouldn’t work with for one reason or another.
CHRIS NEUMER: I’m not digging for dirt but what do you mean by ‘certain people’? You don’t have to give names.
BILLY BOB THORNTON: Oh, I never talk about people publicly. I’m just saying that there are things—and they’re not always because they’re not talented or they’re bad people, it’s because I know that I wouldn’t fit in to that well. Let’s say there’s a kind of director that’s—I see a [project I’d like to do] but, oh, this guy’s directing it so I know what kind of movie that will be and I don’t fit into that so much. He’s really more about the look. He’s known for not working well with actors, but it’ll look gorgeous and I’ll look good in, but it’ll be cut like a rock video and it’ll be popular and all that stuff but the acting will be really shallow in those movies. I know people like that and those are directors whom I wouldn’t choose to work with. There are also people, just like in your business, I’m sure you know people where I might say, "I was just interviewed by Roger Johnson, nice guy!" And you might say, "Ah, he’s an asshole!" But I don’t know that because I don’t operate in that world. So the world in which I operate, I know these people. There may be somebody who appears on entertainment shows and he appears to be the nicest guy in the world, but I happen to know he’s a cutthroat bastard.
CHRIS NEUMER: Let me ask you this, I talked to Luc Besson recently and I asked him how he decided whether to shoot a project in France or in the States. He said there was some esthetic about the script that he couldn’t put his finger on. He just knew. The French would behave one way, the Americans another and he then picked which one of the scenarios he’d rather see. So I wanted to ask you, since you have every conceivable filmmaking talent at your disposal, when you read scripts, how do you decide in what capacity you want to associate with the project?
BILLY BOB THORNTON: Hmmm… Mostly these days I only look at them as an actor. I haven’t wanted to direct in awhile and I’ve been too lazy to write anything, so most of the things I look at are as an actor. Hypothetical situation: I’m given five or six screenplays and I’d read all of them and when I read one, I know what I should do. It’s very clear to you and there’s no real explanation for it. Part of it goes back to—let’s say I read a script and I know I’m not right as the actor. Let’s say it’s a southern movie—I know the south very well—so it’s a southern movie and I understand that world. But, it’s about a southern sheriff. It’s a crime story with some family drama involved. I’ve kind of done that as an actor and been in those movies. That doesn’t seem like I’d be growing to play that part. But they need a guy from the south to direct it, to put a different spin on this, someone who really knows that world, so maybe I’d direct that. Maybe the dialogue is written by a guy from the Bronx. Maybe I’d be a great writer to rewrite the dialogue to make it more southern. So you see those things and you just know. I can usually tell in 10 or 15 pages of the script whether I’d fit in or whether I should be doing it.
CHRIS NEUMER: One thing I did wonder—I know how god awful it’s got to be doing all this press and being asked the same stupid questions all the time, how great is it working with anyone?—as you’ve been traveling around, are there any things that you’ve noticed and have been pondering?
BILLY BOB THORNTON: About the project or the press?
CHRIS NEUMER: It’s the first time I’ve ever asked this question, so I’m still working out the kinks. No, I’m talking about just in general.
BILLY BOB THORNTON: So not about the movie specifically.
CHRIS NEUMER: I’ll give you an example. Do you follow football?
BILLY BOB THORNTON: Absolutely.
CHRIS NEUMER: I’ve been pondering if there’s a Marty Schottenheimer of the film world. Somebody who is excellent when it doesn’t count but really bad when it does. I’ve talked about it with my friends and we’ve bandied it about. So I ask you, are there any things you’ve been bringing up with your friends? Throwing around?
BILLY BOB THORNTON: Uh… well, yeah! And it actually does have to do with the movie. I’ve started wondering why people want to find flaws more than find enjoyment. Why do people want to not enjoy more than enjoy in this day and time? I didn’t grow up in that! I’ve been really thinking about how cynical society is. A lot of the reason I’ve been wondering this is because of this movie. This movie is kind of like Hoosiers or Field of Dreams but it’s also Mr. Smith Goes to Washington. We can watch Mr. Smith Goes to Washington and say, "Hey, what a masterpiece." But if we were to make it today, everybody would say, "Do you really think the senate would let him speak for that long? And let this go on? Would they do something about it?"
CHRIS NEUMER: They’d call in Halliburton.
BILLY BOB THORNTON: (laughs) Right! Would they really bring the big bin of letters in and say, "Look at all these letters!" No! They’d call him into some stupid office and talk to him. There’s stuff you can pick apart with everything. What I’m wondering is why people don’t go to movies anymore and sit back and want to enjoy it? Why is everybody—everybody looks at music, concerts, records, books, anything. People buy things, watch things, and listen to things these days like this. (leans back in his chair and folds arms) "Let’s see what this is." So he’s making another movie. Well, I liked his last two, but let’s see if he can do it again. I’m really wondering why people need that. And for this movie, one of the things that people ask a lot, they don’t even believe it, they just ask it because it’s like, "What [negative] can I say about this?" This movie makes you feel good. Period. Just go watch the damn thing. But a lot of people say, "Where do you draw the line between your dream and taking care of your family?" All that stuff. "Don’t’ you think he was very selfish?" That’s the first thing they go for. They don’t where I actually do give up. I actually gave up and my family said, "Don’t give up." What people notice is that I’m a selfish asshole and that my wife if putting up with my shit. Then, I say, "But remember halfway through the movie I say, ‘Let’s get rid of this thing. Give it to a junkyard, I’ve already hurt this family enough.’ And she says, ‘No you’re not going to give up, we can start all over again.’ My son sits by my hospital bed and says, ‘Don’t give up!’" They don’t mention that. I just wonder why people are so out to find the negative. Now we’ve got this astronaut in the news. Boy, she’s just great, isn’t she? Now everybody’s got somebody to call a weirdo. It’s like, "Let’s hate her for a while." (laughs) I mean, it’s weird shit, no doubt about it. But it’s an event for people. And people don’t want good events, they want bad events.
CHRIS NEUMER: (laughs) When you first talked about this, I was instantly reminded of a Simpson’s quote. Funny how they work everywhere. Homer’s explaining why it’s okay that he puts down a foreign guy at work, Tibor, and says that doing so making him feel better and finishes the statement by saying, "And I’m sick of making other people feel good." Could it be something like this where people feel better about themselves if they put other people/things down?
BILLY BOB THORNTON: I’m sure that has something to do with it. But I’m wondering when we started feeling that was acceptable.
CHRIS NEUMER: Or even, looking to the future, what would have to happen to start going back the other way.
BILLY BOB THORNTON: See we weren’t jealous of the Beatles or Elvis. We took our girlfriends to the movies to see Elvis. (laughs) I mean, I was 12 or 13 but I probably went with my buddy Don. We wanted to like things. And we did! Now it seems that everything is cynical. People liked Bad Santa and Slingblade for the wrong reasons sometimes.
CHRIS NEUMER: Let me interrupt and ask this, are there bad reasons to like something?
BILLY BOB THORNTON: It would be better if people got the vision of something. It would be better because then, the thing that you have to teach or say, can actually benefit people in some way.
CHRIS NEUMER: What you’re talking about is looking at a Monet painting and saying, "I like that because there’s a naked chick in it."
BILLY BOB THORNTON: Exactly! It would be nice to have that. When people come up to me… If some redneck comes up to me and says, "Man, Slingblade. That was my favorite movie. It was funnier than shit!" I’m like, "Wow… Okay, I guess?" And they think Carl was funny! "That voice you make was funnier than hell." That voice and that character have become iconic for so many different people and for so many different reasons. And I guess that’s great. I’m glad they love it, but…
CHRIS NEUMER: It’s always nice to have something you created resonates, but on the other some people are missing the whole point.
BILLY BOB THORNTON: I’m sure there are homophobes out there who don’t have any idea that I was saying that it’s better for a gay guy to be a parent than for the horrible straight guy. That’s not brought up by the guy who says that Carl was funnier than shit. Slingblade also had a lot of symbolism.
CHRIS NEUMER: (sarcastically) What’s that? Really? Sym-bull-what?
BILLY BOB THORNTON: I’ve had questions from people like, "Did you really have to kill Dwight Yoakam? He wasn’t really that bad of a guy." It’s like, you don’t understand! He represents… then you stop and it’s like, "You’re not going to get this."
CHRIS NEUMER: As soon as you have to start attempting to explain subtext to people, all bets are off.
